Underground Hip Hop

[thatonethere]

Is there anybody out there who likes underground hip hop? By "underground" I mean stuff that isn't on the radio.

[Scoop]

used to like 5 years ago. haven't bothered in a while. its lost its appeal to me.

only thing i still like is non phixion and ill bill specifically.

[taxx]

I mostly listen to metal but sometimes I listen to stuff like aesop rock, atmosphere, jedi mind tricks, apathy, Army of the Pharaohs ? just some. Edited November 24, 2009 by taxx

[bellaxovita]

never really got too into it...but i always liked the grouch and eligh

[twoapplesplease]

I'm all about the old school

[RogueSmoker]

For those of you that have I-tunes check out poor ragged rascal (podcasts) you won't be dissapointed Edited November 24, 2009 by RogueSmoker

[Giant Ninja Robot]

Very much into Underground HipHop. It's the genre I'm most passionate about by far. Blackalicious, Doom, Del, PUTS, El-P, Aesop Rock, Murs, Slug, Edan, Antipop Consortium, Binary Star, Blockhead, Brother Ali, J5, Cage, Felt, Company Flow, Blueprint, Heiro, Dilla, KRS and Buckshot, Lyrics Born, Mos, Mr. Lif, Lightheaded, Pigeon John, Dilated Peoples, and much more....I'm a head for sure.

[Stuie]

Wouldn't that hurt your head.... underground... hip hop

[KyleTheJustin]

Most of the artists that have been mentioned I have heard to on a much larger scale than "underground." Underground, at least to me, happens live and is amazing to watch. 9 times out of 10 those artists would drop their "underground" rep for a signing deal. Not to hold that against them, since I have and will continue to listen to them regardless of what kind of salary they pull in:) It's what separates true music from 50 Cent.

[Giant Ninja Robot]

I disagree. The artists mentioned may be of a more national mode but that doesn't mean they're anything remotely close to "mainstream".

If you mean local-unsigned-artist-that-only-releases-material-they've-burned-themselves-onto-disks-from-Sam's-club that's different than "underground". I think it's silly to go into levels of undergrounded-ness lol. Particularly if we're using the term to describe a sub-genre of hip hop music, not level of obscurity.

[KyleTheJustin]

It's not obscure at all, in fact it epitomizes what should be defined as "underground" and what is "mainstream." Like it or not, more music than you would ever believe should be considered mainstream but isn't due to the "cred" that comes with being underground. It's all a bunch of horse shit since the development of Myspace and other music sites. And, yes, the people who burn their stuff on their own Sam's club CDs are considered underground, but are they anymore underground than the bands mentioned above? Certainly, but that's purely due to location--a point easily avoided by music websites.

[Scoop]

youre making 3 categories now

not-very-popular underground
popular underground
commercial

most of the artists gnr named are popular underground artists...to me that doesn't make them commercial. they prolly sell very little records and make shit for money. one of my friends went to school with murs' brother and said that dude barely gets by on the money he gets from sales / tours and i think hes a pretty popular artist.

that random sams club cd burner is underground maybe, but who cares, in most cases dude is going to suck. if you have shitty equipment you wont make high quality music. no mastering and engineering makes it sounds bad. ive taken a lot of cds from random "underground" dudes around los angeles and ive yet to hear 1 good song. a lot of live shows suck ass too.

[KyleTheJustin]

So then we attribute "underground" to those that have the ability to produce better music with better equipment? That's complete bullshit. While I agree 90% of the Sam's Club guys will probably suck, the truly "raw" and "underground" talent out there drastically dwarfs the mainstream shit that is out there today--mainstream, not to be confused with the "underground" in this thread. I think all underground hip hop deserves its credit, and to attribute that label solely to those who are more well-known "underground" artists, which in itself negates itself, seems rather counterproductive.

I think it's just a difference in opinion defining the term.

[Arcane]

It's what separates true music from 50 Cent.

omg...50 cent is awesome!! will smith makes great music too!

[Scoop]

So then we attribute "underground" to those that have the ability to produce better music with better equipment? That's complete bullshit. While I agree 90% of the Sam's Club guys will probably suck, the truly "raw" and "underground" talent out there drastically dwarfs the mainstream shit that is out there today--mainstream, not to be confused with the "underground" in this thread. I think all underground hip hop deserves its credit, and to attribute that label solely to those who are more well-known "underground" artists, which in itself negates itself, seems rather counterproductive.

I think it's just a difference in opinion defining the term.

clearly you didn't understand what i wrote. thats fine.

all i meant is underground is broad.

[joytron]

Underground is a way of defining a type of music as a way of separating it from mainstream. There are plenty of hip hop artists that get less play then most of the artists that have been listed above. While in general an underground artist does not get radio time, Mos Def who has I would still categorize into underground. Your "sams club" artist would either be mainstream or underground based upon his/her sound rather then the amount of exposure.

[Giant Ninja Robot]

I don't think anybody is trying to say that independent artists who are not signed to any label are discluded from underground hip hop. I wasn't intending that to be what came across.

We're trying to establish that the broad belief is underground describes a subgenre, not a level of success.

I just think it's elitist and silly to say "this artist is more underground than that artist" because of their notoriety, independent label affiliation, or lack thereof. Or vice versa.

In your arguments the quality of the music is being mixed in with the availability of the music on a wider stage into some sort of "underground hiphop" amalgamation of a credibility level rating system.

I was simply trying to say that your definition of the artists I listed as borderline mainstream is silly. Because if we're following your definition of underground they aren't. Go ask any mainstream hiphop fan who Gift of Gab is and they wont know. Then when you tell them he's the emcee from Blackalicious and the Mighty Underdogs they wont know who the fuck THEY are. Then when you explain that they are signed to a label called Quannum they wont know what the hell Quannum is or that it was once Solesides which was a pioneering label in the 90s underground movement that started more socially aware and intelligent hip hop. Etc, etc, etc....

What I was trying to communicate is that just like you seem to feel that lesser known and local artists should get more credibility for some reason, I don't think artists who have more support should LOSE cred because of their limited success.

And this is all coming from the POV of an emcee/producer who makes his music at home and burns his music onto disks that could be found at Costco or Sam's Club

When it comes down to it, you like hiphop I like hiphop, awesome...go hiphop woo!

[Dr. B]

Very much into Underground HipHop. It's the genre I'm most passionate about by far. Blackalicious, Doom, Del, PUTS, El-P, Aesop Rock, Murs, Slug, Edan, Antipop Consortium, Binary Star, Blockhead, Brother Ali, J5, Cage, Felt, Company Flow, Blueprint, Heiro, Dilla, KRS and Buckshot, Lyrics Born, Mos, Mr. Lif, Lightheaded, Pigeon John, Dilated Peoples, and much more....I'm a head for sure.

J5? seriously? Warped tour for years, deals with Sony BGM for soundtracks, music videos... NO

Alternative doesn't mean underground; Nor does not getting radio play. The fact that yall can recognize half the names posted in this thread and yall are from all sorts of different places kind of voids the idea of being underground doesn't it?

But if I list a bunch of underground gangsta rappers and DJs from the styles I'm into yall will tell me it can't be underground because gangsta rap was the last "in" thing before this club-rap made-for-radio wave caught on. Have yall ever heard of ESG? Archie Lee? Big Mello? Rasaq? Fat Pat? K-Rino? South Park Mexican? These are names you can't drop outside of Houston and expect people to know but if you're talkin to a head in Houston they'll know whats up.

I vote to rename this thead "alternative hip hop". This isnt me hating, it's me askin yall to get your minds correct and start using the right words. You wouldn't call a tree an ox and you wouldn't call Del The Funkee Homosapien underground. Sorry GNR, you just happened to be in the crosshairs.

[Giant Ninja Robot]

thats the thing Dr. B.

My ENTIRE last post was trying to support my point that the phrase "underground hiphop" in the context of this thread is intended to label a style of music not an obscurity or popularity level.

Can't be any more blunt than that.

I don't call it alternative hip-hop. I call it underground when referring to the style.

[Dr. B]

Since yall are trying to figure out exactly what "underground" should mean, I figure I can drop my $.02 on the subject.

Underground status doesn't change necessarily if you get a deal, if you make good music, or if you get radio play. Those things are to be considered when evaluating your status based on one thing: How many people in different places have heard your music and what are the odds that two strangers can talk about it? That's fenda change if you start getting up as an artist (radio, deals, shows, etc) but what it boils down to is simple: People know your shit or they don't. That's it.

to gnr: Which post? the one I quoted? If that's the case then see my comment about changing the name of the thread. What you're doing by using "underground" to define a style is wrong. Edited November 24, 2009 by Dr. B

[Giant Ninja Robot]

no i said my last post. the one directly above the one you posted.

and WHO says labeling this genre as underground is wrong lol?

[Dr. B]

the fact that "underground" has a transient definition pertaining to other genres of music is who.


"We're trying to establish that the broad belief is underground describes a subgenre, not a level of success." Your band of alternative hip-hoppers stands alone with that one. I don't even think that everyone who is into hip-hop-lite would be on board.

sorry bro, don't call a tree an ox. Edited November 24, 2009 by Dr. B

[Scoop]

to be fair. J5 did start out as underground. along with pretty much everyone else on the list.

[Dr. B]

to be fair. J5 did start out as underground. along with pretty much everyone else on the list.

Hip-Hop doesn't have too many boy bands. So yeah, most everyone starts off underground. Interscope REALLY pushed J5 though

[thatonethere]

It's what separates true music from 50 Cent.

omg...50 cent is awesome!! will smith makes great music too!

You know whose ever better.....Soulja Boy!!!!!
All jokes aside, my definition of "underground" simply means "stuff that isn't played on the radio". For a lot of "underground" hip hop fans, there are a lot of underground artists who are very well known in the underground scene, like Aseop Rock, Del, Slug (Atmosphere), MF Doom,etc, but that shouldn't exclude them from the "underground" label. The only reason why those artists are in that category is because they don't get mainstream air time at all. This doesn't include your favorite Myspace or Youtube rapper. It applies to those who are signed to a label, but not played on the radio.

That's how I see it.

A few of my favorite underground artists (in no particular order) are:
MF Doom
Blu and Exile
Shad
Cunninlynguists (I know, I know. they have a "nice" name, but don't let it fool you. They are really, really good)
OC
Masta Ace
Unknown Prophets
LongShot
Gabriel Teodros
Zion I (before their last album)

Grouch and Eli are dope too. Kudos to whomever mentioned them